Hello Raptor world. and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low . Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. These are technically not recalls but an extension of coverage if the customer has a concern and falls within the window of . I'm assuming this is like a TSB. Trading start-up clicking for what sounds like a power neuter job and a "shudder" is nuts. We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! Transmission & Electrical Issue - Flashing D, N, and Gears, The wheel nuts for the Expedition 2015 are not compatible with the wheel wrench. Thanks! Ford TSB 21N08 2019 F-150 | CarComplaints.com Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. What causes the engine shudder 21N08 issue? This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. Ill try to update this report in 2023 as this customer satisfaction bulletin expires. If your cam phasers are not noisy, don't fix stuff that isn't broken, obviously the earlier PCM upgrade was done that extends your warranty to 70000 miles and prorates beyond that, you don't have the shudder so not needed the 108 flash. Reaction score. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. If your car is experiencing engine shudder, it may be time for a PCM reprogram. This is a free service and should only take about an hour or so to complete. Ford Motor Company will provide a no-cost, one-time repair under program 21N08 to return the vehicle's PCM to the prior calibration. The PCM controls many aspects of the vehicles engine and transmission, including ignition timing, fuel injection, and shifting. From what I have gathered my dealership performed 21B10 on October 1st (NOT 21N08 which is supposed to be a factory roll back). JavaScript is disabled. Summary of Related Cam Phaser Rattle Recalls: How Much Does Cam Phaser Replacement Out Of Warranty Cost? Ford then released two further customer satisfaction programs as an extension of coverage. Reprogrammed PCM - Now it Stalls | Ford Raptor Forum Gotcha. It is an essential part of a cars powertrain system and is responsible for managing the fuel delivery, ignition timing, and transmission shifts to ensure optimal performance and efficiency of the car. These effected models include: This vehicle repair also covers the Ford Raptor and Limited F150 variants. . If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. This issue is often caused by a software glitch or by using incompatible software for the specific make and model of the car. Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. PCM reprogram due to engine shudder (Program 21n08) I started Fordmasterx as an effort to combine my two passions writing and car ownership into one website. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Terms of Service - Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. What did you do to your truck today? Oh ok perhaps a good point. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. If you are an astute shopper, you might have found these issues before buying a vehicle. PDF TO - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. There is a recall, Mine has the same issue with the shudder after that recall. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. The engine shudders 21N08 issue is a problem that causes the engine to shake or shudder. If youre experiencing engine shudder in your Ford vehicle, please bring it to your nearest dealership or service center so we can take a look and get it fixed up for you as soon as possible. I have used premium fuel and it didnt make any difference. Manage Preferences - Diagram. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. This program covers certain repairs that may be needed as a result of a software issue. The initial cam phasers rattle would generally first appear on a cold start due to a lack of oil. You may then need the cam phasers replaced through the 21N03 customer satisfaction plan. cam phaser rattles. Reliability is important to me. So I should probably find out what this transmission repair is. Hey! Unfortunately, many users reported a return of the symptoms after the 21B10 reflash. Advertising - Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 was an extended warranty coverage on engine cam phasers on vehicles that had received a PCM reflash prior to December 31, 2021. Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts. Both will appear on the carfax of every affected VIN, which includes 2017 to early 2020 models. Brought it back to the dealership and they ran the 21N08 - PCM Reprogam Due to . Ford TSB 21N08 Make: Ford Number: 21N08 Date: 10/29/2021 Title: PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder Summary: In a very low percentage of the affected vehicles, an engine shudder may develop after receiving the PCM update provided in program 21B10. I am actually looking to buy my first F150 3.5L EcoBoost, as a used truck, but have seen a lot of posts regarding the. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. .any advice? Only 21B10 has to be completed, 21N08 is extended coverage. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. 21N08 Ford Technical Service Bulletin - tsbsearch.com . LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. Or, if your vehicle has been in a collision, the impact could have damaged the PCM. Sorry my Ford pass just updated and now I have the 21N08 and 21N03. #5. They will uninstall and re-install the program using specialized equipment and software. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. When this happens, the engine can stall without warning and the vehicle may not be able to be restarted. Engine - Fordmasterx Can the engine shudder 21N08 issue be fixed without reprogramming the PCM? (CSP 21N03 and 21N08), Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum. Any suggestions on what to do would be helpful? You are using an out of date browser. That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Privacy Statement - If your check engine light is on and youre experiencing engine shudder, your car may need a pcm reprogram. - Anyone have any information regarding the new recall notice I just received in the Ford App. When the computer is programmed, it will erase this programming andthe vehicle will have to relearn your driving habits. Ford is offering a no-cost repair to reprogram the PCM on these vehicles suffering from engine shudder following the previous 21B10 update. So you need to verify with your dealership with your VIN that the recall repairs have been done. Be aware that your cam phaser rattle may return. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". I had 21B10 done last week on my '19. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. @Lawnpro have you changed your spark plugs yet? The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Privacy Statement - Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. The 21B10 was designed to solve a cam phasers rattle by increasing oil flow to them, but a percentage of affected vehicles demonstrated the side effect of an engine shudder. I'm late to the party but my 3.5L EcoBoost is doing this and it's getting worse. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. Otherwise, further diagnostics will be required to determine cause of shudders. This removes the shudder. Hmm very interesting perhaps I should take it in and see if they will replace mine. This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners . In this article, we will discuss the PCM reprogramming process, the root cause of the program, and the solutions to the issue. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram For Cam Phaser Rattle I had the original work done under warranty 54k miles. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. Pcv Valve Ford 4.2 Liter V6 Engine Diagram . Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. Reaction score. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. Has anyone had FSA 21N08 reflash done yet? | Page 4 | Ford Expedition Forum Y'all better read that letter again. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. If your Ford car or truck is experiencing engine shudder, it could be the result of a variety of different issues. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. Recall 21B10 is a campaign by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to recall certain models of childrens bicycles. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. Go back and tell the dealer is has a shudder. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index148/. You literally just typed back exactly what I said. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. Your email address will not be published. I had the original work done under warranty 54k . States PCM reprogram due to engine shudder, is this anyway related to 21B03. Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. . Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. If you search 21N08 you'll see that's the fix for it. If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. Shudder/Jerking Issue When Accelerating - Ford F150 Forum Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index152/. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. MORE importantly, do it or not, it says they will only cover repairs until JAN 1, 2023. Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. . At the time I scheduled service, I clarified that whether or not my vehicle had experienced a rattle at startup, that a reprogramming would be done. The 5.4L Ford engine is a V8 that was used in many different vehicles from . Are CSP's only performed as needed? In some cases, this can lead to a crash. Mine does this while at low rpms. If you have one of these bikes, you should stop using it immediately and return it to Walmart for a full refund. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Need some help ASAP Code P06B6/ Faulty PCM, Ford SVT Raptor General Discussions [GEN 1], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". Buy or Avoid? 2nd Gen with #21B10 and #21N08 and - Ford Raptor Forum This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. Was it stalling or did the auto shutoff just turn it off for a few seconds? Program 21N08 will be performed if your vehicle exhibits an engine shudder during light throttle operation between 1,500 and 2,500 rpm. BUT..I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. The situation is really bad with Ford now. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. PDF TO: SUBJECT: Customer Satisfaction Program 21N03 - Supplement #1 This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received . One potential cause of engine shudder is an issue with the PCM, or powertrain control module. Terms of Service - This issue can be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the driver and passengers, and it can also lead to reduced performance and fuel efficiency. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. Surprised to not see a whole slew of threads or posts on 21N08. Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. The PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is a computer located in a cars engine that controls the cars engine and transmission. I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. Has anyone else experienced this after having the PCM updated? Detroit. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. Check with your dealer to see if your vehicle is eligible and make an appointment for service. call your dealer and schedule an appointment. If the Carfax shows that the vehicle that you are looking at buying has already received the 21B10, then you may need to take it in for the 21NO8 reflash to revert those settings. Required fields are marked *. The PCM reprogramming process involves updating the software that controls the PCM. Posts: 20. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. Even with these known issues, the Ford F150 has an annual maintenance cost estimate of about $858 per year. Plenty of better engineered options out there. This just appeared in my ford pass. What is this all about? The transmission is responsible for transmitting power from the engine to the wheels. I have three trucks in mind that I am looking at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. So i guess every 30k miles i am looking at $1200 bill..crazy this is not covered under warranty!!! By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. Because of this issue, your engine may shake or shudder. Id like to know whats causing this as well. it's a software update to prevent a phaser . Your email address will not be published. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. Just extended the coverage. The affected bikes were sold at Walmart stores nationwide from February 2018 through July 2018. develop an undesirable noise.
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