On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. part-exchange. After 1 hour or so the bike can be started again, but the ignition fails again after riding about 20 miles - not a pleasent way to ride! Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. For example, in the Lucas K1F and K2F, the earth brush is located on top inboard of the main mounting flange. <]>> Photo-sequences of stripping and 0000001015 00000 n Take a look at some of the equipment we You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. Rotate the armature and check that the contact- breaker spring never touches the cam. in the translations. 0000002847 00000 n Free access to service and repair This expediential degradation may appear to be sudden when the fault occurs. Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. Ensure that you have the proper gasket fitted. Great write up, with video even! Now line up your degree wheel with the pointer at 38*. What else could possibly be grounding this? I would also welcome information on some of the things shown in the video such as the handles on the trolley. To do this, measure the resistance between the magneto body and the end of the armature shaft. If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. have a small choice of reconditioned If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. [5] The hub of the magneto rotates while the drive shaft is held stationary, and the spring tension builds up. Initial installation does require the Norsk Translations provided by the Google 0000001913 00000 n 0000001320 00000 n I worked on farm equipment for my last real service job from 2013 thru 2016. Problems rooted in the magneto are sometimes obvious, or can seem like all sorts of other things. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. Magneto Parts Archives - Rex's Speed Shop Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. If you havent already done so, undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Once Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . Nous Lucas SR2 Magneto - Hitchcocks Forum Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). Nederlandse rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any errors If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. March 21, 2020 in Technical. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. I'll try the 3/16" gap test. Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. Wrap some rag around the end of a stick about 1/4 diameter, moisten it with petrol or other cleaning fluid (but not so much that it is dripping), poke it through the pick-up hole in the magneto body, and rotate the armature to clean the slip ring. Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might Two beveled teeth on drive gear(which are generally parallel to flat for shaft it fits on) should go to mark on rotor which is under lead out finger. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Dansk 0000000016 00000 n Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. The place to buy our EasyCap condensers It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. i have had 3 done here by ed strain that included rebuild with remagnatized body for a little more than $200.00. And a f-ing video! Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. relating to our products, others more general The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. 0000005468 00000 n A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. This was examined earlier. Our patented EasyCap is a simple It may not display this or other websites correctly. Wico-XH Magneto Won't Spark | Smokstak Antique Engine Community JavaScript is disabled. and just how were you able to find one of those bastards that still worked?!?!?! You must log in or register to reply here. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Twirl the armature. yourselves. When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). i totally agree. The voltage generated in the primary winding is a product of its velocity through the magnetic field and the strength of that field, so the condition of the magnet is vital for the correct performance of the magneto. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. If you have a plug tester available that adds simulated compression pressure (using air pressure) to the end of the exposed plug while firing voltage to it you will see the more pressure the higher kv the plug needs to fire correctly. Initially this was done because it was easier to provide good insulation for the secondary winding of an external coil than it was in a coil buried in the construction of the magneto (early magnetos had the coil assembly externally to the rotating parts to make them easier to insulateat the expense of efficiency). Check the state of the points surfaces. The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . instruments available for immediate use, and a Espaol I would narrow the plug gaps to .020" and see what happens. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. things we think matter when it comes to magnetos and. Svensk The turns ratio between the primary and secondary coil is selected so that the voltage across the secondary reaches a very high value, enough to arc across the gap of the spark plug. [2] An ignition magneto also includes an electrical transformer,[2] which converts the electricity to a higher voltage (with the trade-off being a corresponding reduction in the output current).[2]. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. Click on a button to see magnetos from other manufacturers Bosch BTH Others Click on any picture to get a larger view An importance cause of field strength reduction is the removal of the magnet from its normal situation without fitting a keeper, a device designed to maintain the integrity of the magnetic circuit. In the Lucas MO1, it is on one side, adjacent the contact-breaker housing. is it rebuilt? If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. All Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. Trademark Office. You are using an out of date browser. We also have kits for more unusual magnetos, such as the BTH, ML, Magnetos France, Morel, Lucas wader, Lucas KVF, etc., and for cars. The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. This could be because: the brush isnt projecting far enough to touch the slip ring, so check that as best you can. The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. information aggregated from many sources. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. If you can see the slip-ring through the pick-up hole in the main housing, check that the brass ring or segment of the slip-ring is brass coloured (albeit possibly a bit dirty or tarnished), but not completely black. [6], The first car to use magneto ignition was the 1901 German Mercedes 35 hp racing car, followed by various cars produced by Benz, Mors, Turcat-Mery, and Nesseldorf. Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. Re-install the contact-breaker assembly, ensuring that it registers properly with the armature shaft. A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. long practical experience of working on magnetos and Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. Links to some interesting As the magnet moves with respect to the coil, the magnetic flux linkage of the coil changes. If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. It is almost a given that a Lucas armature will require replacement if in the original condition. Italiana Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. Any suggestions? Will It Spark? use in our workshop for magneto servicing Check the state of the contact return spring and replace if broken. If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. capacitance to satisfactory ignition system 1. If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. If the pick-up is retained by spring clip, swing it to one side while holding the pick-up in place. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. The ratio of turns in the secondary winding to the number of turns in the primary winding, is called the turns ratio. "A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts." (Chinese) It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. The last of these possible reasons is very often the cause. [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). insulators; and timing discs. If possible, get somebody to help. Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. Lucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuff. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. We always replace the capacitor during a repair as experience has show us that the capacitor tends to be the most unreliable part. 0000005952 00000 n Then wash the points with petrol and dry them. magnetos. or A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. replace it with an EasyCap. If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. Magneto advice - lucas rf4 in vedette engine | YBW Forum In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. Pick-up brushes of the highest Remagnetisation - Brightspark Magnetos [5], The first person to develop the idea of a high-tension magneto was Andr Boudeville,[citation needed] but his design omitted a condenser (capacitor). Post in the forum instead. To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=294172&stc=1&d=1508717862. The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. Check the cam surface. After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. to suit the needs of a customer. Check for wear and replace any worn parts. If it is several thousand ohms, it indicates that the HT lead is resistive and/or the plug cap is fitted with a suppressor resistor. (Japanese) The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Due to the inevitable losses in the system, this oscillation decays fairly rapidly. However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. 82 0 obj<> endobj In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. 85 0 obj<>stream Take a look unfortunately the repair did not work as the Coil did not work so it had to be sent to rewinding. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service IMPORTANT. The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. Replace the cam, ensuring that the notches in it engage as before (e.g. No this is the type of stuff I like logging in to see! Please phone or email for details. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). Thank you for your patience. Sign up for a new account in our community. On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. Built into the case of the magneto are magnets, permanent magnets. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. or. With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). and other magneto parts. [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. If you are sure that all earth brushes are removed, and if either the magneto has a fibre drive pinion or the drive pinion/sprocket has been removed, you can now check the effectiveness of the bearing insulators. You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. MAGNETO MAGIC - PressReader Svensk 0000009971 00000 n at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing %%EOF With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). i found that is a cheaper, easier way to go than doing it my self with refurbished parts. One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. (Japanese) A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). In the right direction (clockwise, looking at the points) and a fairly healthy looking spark should jump the gap from one ht at a time, lead to casing. This was diagnosed as the cam ring not being properly timed to the magnetic poles. In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser patterns for shims, gaskets and bearing All rewound units now have modern condensers and enameled wire. Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. So I'm having an issue that is frustrating me and my mag rebuilder. further selection that can be reconditioned on Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. Stored in the dry. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's These faults do not necessarily occur instantaneously, they may develop over time leading to a gradual deterioration of the spark output. 0000002409 00000 n We detailed support we offer. This induces an EMF in the coil, which in turn causes a current to flow. Brightspark Magnetos - Home item. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. tour of some of our specialised workshop

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