The Tree is known by it s fruit!Holy Love has grown many, many Great Holy Fruits! Okay, Ill answer your question that you posed awhile ago. 18: 17-18). No need to write in Spanish but if you want to practice its OK. :o) I have lived in the US for a long timecurrently I am in Argentina for a whileI was received in the Church in the UK so my general Catholic sense is a bit English which is good. That 3221 was arguing from the satanic messages of HLM was apparent given his/her fierceness. (6) Even unjust or improper suspensions are legally binding. The Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, always looks below the surface because all that glitters isnt gold and regardless of how many people visit or how many statues are erected or rosaries said, it does not constitute proof in the Churchs judgment. Otherwise well meaning people are disenchanted by a perception of a lack of people fulfilling their office(s). People have been going to thisplace since the early 1990s, drawn by founder Maureen Sweeney-Kyles claim that Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary and a host of saints are appearing to her with messages. In the case someone wishes to continue with the red-herring that is the admonishing vs. forbidding argument, consider carefully the canons that Bishop Lennon cites in that clause of the Decree. Incidentally, I keep hearing about such bad doctrine from those who mock HLM. It is regarding the identity of the "restrainer" who holds back the antichrist from entering the Catholic Church and how much time is left for the restrainer to protect Holy Mother Church. 9/3/93 from Our Lady: My little messenger, what I most wish to convey to you is how much Jesus I look only into the heart. The one place I can go today to be instructed in the depth of the Catholic Faith is Holy Love Ministries. The Bishop has spoken after an investigation of Holy Love, as requested by Pope Benedict XVI. The local bishop is not final word on apparition sites and their approval. Youre welcome! Consider the options the devil has available to trap faithful Catholics? There is an old adage in Scholastic(?) Yes, there are those within Church structure that do not follow Church teaching. Did the early Chistians refuse to believe in Jesus because the local religious authorities objected? I would ask that you speak in specifics. The logic is the same. Will you gain fruits if you are obedient to the bishop, whether he is wrong or not? I just got those beads myself. do something new. God Bless Eric What I discovered about the virtue of obedience from both of these eminently reliable sources surprised even me, although my instincts led me in this direction. An admonishment is not an act of condemnation, nor does it indicate disobedience. Clothe me in Your Divine Will. You end your comment by saying the Church is wise enough to reserve judgement the issue of authenticity. I dont understand what youre implying. I am not accusing Bishop Lennon of anything. This is an example of what the devil gets out of false apparitions. That I do not accept your derision of HLM? Such people will not be attracted to obvious evil. In addition, there are a number of followers in the area where I live who were irritated by my observations. Patti Maguire Armstrong: The Stumbling Block of False Apparitions NO legitimate apparition in the history of the Catholic Church has EVER told/ordered/directed someone to go outside of the authority of the Church in order to make itself known. The organization has been at odds with the Catholic Church almost from the start. In the Mystical Theology of St. John of the Cross (Doctor of Mystical Theology of the Catholic Church) he explains that in mystical union with God, the soul becomes God and God becomes the soul. The writings of HLM are totally reasonable. There are a zillion ways to grow in the faith. The chambers of the heart spoken about at Holy Love Ministries is indicative of entering more deeply into union with God. People these days dont know the difference between good and evil anymore. But HLM was NOT condemned nor could it be canonically, unless there were something against faith or morals of the Catholic Church. The saints and angels relaying the messages, or Mary- or maybe even Christ Himself? When that Faith is diluted, distorted, and/or not taught, you no longer have the true Church. People can follow Sweeny-Kyle or the Church, but not both. They lied about sexual abuse and covered it up. I think that this third point is the crux of it all for this person (and others that continue to go to the site). "No. I must disagree with Thomas in this case as souls are at least equally at stake should people follow a false apparition. Do not take what St. Ignatius says out of context. You want transparency? Thank you for the prayers. 3) Therefore, Sweeney-Kyle must obey the decision of the competent ecclesiastical authorities (remember, both Lennon and the Holy See were involved in this matter). First of all, Jesus DOES DEPEND on us to help Him save the world. Thanks. I realize I did not know nor could I have ever guessed but I do feel ashamed to have offended by being ignorant. You are all wet canonically on that one. Fr. We are all children of God and she wants to save everyone. Holy Love is the Two Great Commandments of Love - to love God above all else and to love neighbor as self. Catholics must keep their heads on straight and not wander from Church teachings, but praying at an apparition site is not wrong. The treasure of Holy Love Ministries is that it is teaching the fullness of the Catholic Faith and the depth mystical theology that underpins it. Since he cannot FORBID Catholics from going there, he ADMONISHES them not to go. _________________________, My first article (originally published 11/6/2006): A Vision for Apparitions. You have every right even a duty to suggest caution, as you did in your article. Many Catholics wishing to promote alleged or unapproved private revelations use a maxim to justify their position. First of note concerns the structure of the Decree. Again, Catholic obedience must always be to the Faith. If there is state it SPECIFICALLY, okay???? Were people disobedient to believe in her although their bishop condemned her? I really dont advise these places for most folks. Patti I beg to differ with you. what might be going on at all these apparition sites is being done as Amos the the prophet stated in ch 3 lines 7&8.. read read read. Some just cannot get their facts straight! You are bound to obey the Bishop of Cleveland whether you like it or not. Thats even funnier! He backed down. Yet it is allegedly teaching the deep theology of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. When we use our free will to do as God asks us , it is called cooperating with grace. He just doesnt like it. I showed him Thomas email and explained my use of the word condemned. PDF Holy Love Ministries has maintained a period of silence, and now we I have asked you to give me examples of heresy in HLM but you ignore that and harp on obedience to the bishop. who lives about an hour away from me. All this is holy in nature but is not proof of authenticity of purported apparitions. None, 3221, none at all. Thank you. The bishop has an obligation to pastor his people and protect and nourish their faith. In what way are you accusing Bishop Lennon of being heretical? Elizabeth, Our Blessed Mother at HLM had every right to do what she did. This is indeed the teaching of the Catholic Church. Not once did she mention the messages. Is Bishop Lennon not under investigation? Everything I knew about him seemed to be the real deal. The messages portray the Father saying that He is the Virgin Mary: "All must know I am the true Holy Trinity, the true Father, the true Son, the true Holy Spirit. You make some good points. The principle of self knowledge coming before union with God is fundamental in Catholic mystical theology.. You can find the same principle expounded in the writings of St.Teresa of Avila, and St. John of the Cross to name two others.. Find me one misleading thing in any of her messages she has written that shows the Devil is trying to win over people and take them out and away from the church. I just read the decree and it is not a canonically official condemnation as you so want to think. To be honest, I tried my best to fully experience the site (however, I was already in a sour mood due to lack of sleep). They are bound to follow the dictates of the Church.and they cannot condemn what is not able to be condemned according to Church Law. Were they standing with truth? Maureen held my hands and gave me a message. There are abuses of power and authority. Period. Therefore, this official proclamation by the Bishop will be of little regard to Sweeny-Kyle, or her husband Don Kyle, the director of Holy Love Ministries. I just dont see the Blessed Mother doing this. You do not disturb mine at all. This tells me the depth of your discernment if you see the piece that Kevin cited as worthwhile. On the contrary, my statement was quite loaded with theological references. Seven Hills, Oh. I had come because if the appearance did occur I wanted to be there. For there will arise false Christs and false prophets. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.. Clothe me in Your Divine Will. Holy Love Ministry Messages by Topic. They had every right to do what they did. It is so sound. The past prayers and experiences of Holy Love followers were very real. Do I need to tell you that? Condemnation of what is said at HLM cannot happen canonically, for, in order for that to happen, Holy Love Ministries would have to manifest heresy. The topic is disobedience to the Bishop. Excellent, Elizabeth. What Bishop would stop Christians from praying the Rosary, Chaplet of Divine Mercy and many Holy prayers there, in pouring rain, sleet, thunderstorms, frigid, & hot temperature together? Do not let anyone take away your free will choices.. You all will just exclude yourselves from the Truth. So, instead, the devil uses a Catholic facade to lure them in. When God told Adam and Eve not to eat the apple, dont eat the apple, even if just an apple. This is a great test of humility. Repent and run to a merciful Savior. Medjugorje has nothing to do with Holy Love. Certainly not. Such is the case with Holy Love. Therese of Lisieux ((Doctor of the Church) told her novices Pick up a pin and save a soul. These are the facts and this is what in the world I am talking about.. It is nice to know that you are still reading my posts even though you are unable to engage me. Mother Teresa was in a diocese once where the bishop insisted that she and her sisters sit after receiving Holy Communion. However, once the Church has condemned a site and declared it off limits to clergy and laity, its a different ball game. "This virtue, more than all the others, depends on Holy Love and Holy Humility. The bishop has an obligation to pastor his people and protect and nourish their faith. I have also contacted the Mother Teresa Center and am waiting for their response. Messaggi del Santo Amore (Holy Love) Go back to the synagogue of Satan you call Holy Love Ministries and leave the Catholic flock alone. I didnt read the whole thing but scanned it. Makes it look like it is genuine itself. It is through our free will that we either choose to cooperate with the grace that God offers us, or we choose to reject His grace. Please read the few quotes of some recent messages from HL in my post just before Kevins recent post. I admonish the faithful of the Diocese of Cleveland to cease gathering for any religious, liturgical, spiritual or devotional purpose on the site of Holy Love Ministries and declare that the Confraternity of the United Hearts of Jesus and Mary is not an approved association of the Christian faithful in the Diocese of Cleveland and may not legitimately use the name Catholic or represent itself as a Catholic group.. Those interested can read it on the Mystics of the Church website. Lennons condemnation is not unjust. Again, I present the Decree for all to read: No other citations are necessary. The second part is the point about all grace flowing through Marys Immaculate Heart. Stay away so you not fall into a deep personal devotion and love for Blessed Mother and and the Sacred Heart of Jesus. After all, you have the saints, Our Lady, Jesus and God the Father telling them that they MUST continue to come, that the Bishop didnt follow proper procedures (good grief), that the Bishop is wrong..on and on. The decree uses the word warning becasue that it what it isa warning not a formal command to obey. She means hold no grudges, do not withhold forgiveness no matter what someone does to you. I pray that you believe in Holy Love sooner than later. Yes, all are encouraged to pray it and I know an Episcopalian minister who used to pray it, to her credit; but, it is a Catholic prayer. When bishops fail in their teachings and in safeguarding the fullness of the Faith, they are not to be obeyed so that one may be faithful to the Church. I would like to know where Bishop Lennon stands on abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality, women priests etc. But, unfortunately many who are seeking for something in life to fill a void they may have, want to be able to fill this void by going to such places as the above. Apparitions at Holy Love Ministries Revisited. I've visited this site with my family and have experienced many graces as a result. At 2:00, the appointed hour, the pilgrims waited eagerly, gazing upward. I am curious to know where Bishop Lennon stands on defending our treasured Faith. When will you respond those? If there were something erroneous in the doctrine taught at HLM, Bishop Lennon would have stated it. I cant and because of this I will continue to pray the Rosary, spread it, follow the messages, go to Mass, go to confession and adoration as much as I can. After Thomas challenged my article, I wrote to Fr. St. Catherine of Sienna? Call it the Holy Spirit or my Guardian Angel, but I dont think this is a true Catholic organization. abortion. Saint Padre Pio was forbidden to celebrate Mass with the faithful for many, many years. The remnant are not those necessarily following HLM, but rather those who follow the truths of the Catholic Church with a humble openness to God.If one is doing this, one does not necessarily need HLM to tell them what one already knows. "No. Are you saying that when the Bishop says, Dont go there, he is acting outside his sphere of authority? I love obedience, and without it no one can please me (Autobiography of St. Margaret Mary # 47). Sweeney-Kyles logic of ecumenical ministry does not hold water when weighed against Church doctrine and law. @3221: Why are you changing the subject to Medjugorje? Or, disappointment leads them to reject Church authority thinking that they are right and the Church is wrong. I think this puts the HLM in even greater disrepute. Please stop attempting to cause confusion about this ministry. To commit Mortal sin, we enumerated those 3 things has to be present. Lets be specific Harry. The organization has been at odds with the Catholic Church almost from the start. She refused to recant that she was hearing voices directing her to do such and such. My point in bringing this up is that the corruption within the body of bishops is at an all time high. After an angry backlash of emails telling me how wrong I was, I promised never to write about alleged apparitions again. Or were they frauds who gave only an outward appearance of religious devotion? The devil can be there, too. You will be unable to show me one half truth. Heres one from St. Catherine of Sienna on Nov. 18, 2009: Do not be fooled to believe you are not allowed to come. Mark-Mary Ames, CFR, Libya and the Doctrine of Justifiable Rebellion. The Devil Cannot Condemn You: How to Kill Accusations with Conviction Also, what you interpreted about those messages shows that your thinking is clearly boggled. Primacy of conscience trumps blindly following disobedient bishops. I was Isaac in the story of Abraham and Isaac. 6/10/93 from Our Lady: You do not realize how powerful your prayers are and how much I need them. This is contrary to our faith. When others disapprove of your participation here, remember Heaven approves.You increase in holiness when your relationship with Me is such that you seek only to please Me.. HLM teaches the truths of the Catholic Faith in full. Too often, after apparitions are condemned people feel betrayed and give up on God and the Church. Declaring the Church to be wrong/corrupt and going off in rants about it certainly conflicts with being virtuous. Mother Teresa refused and the bishop still insisted that she do so. s mortal sins' if they remembered His Wound once a day the indulgence attached to this revelation has been condemned by the Holy See under the reign of Pope Leo XIII! If the bishop were to state that no credibility can be given to HLM messages, he would, in effect, be disavowing the teachings of the Catholic Faith, as the messages of HLM ARE those deep and ancient truths of Catholicism. condemned. It says no credibility can be given. and in fact, the Holy See was consulted on this matter and appears to be with Lennon. I would suggest that you get a sound Catholic priest to help you sort things out. Hang in there! 214 The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescripts of their own rite approved by the legitimate pastors of the Church and to follow their own form of spiritual life so long as it is consonant with the doctrine I figured that someone who made such a claim above (Mr/Ms 3221) would know! I think that you are referring to when I quoted St. Catherine of Sienas Dialogues wherein God the Father tells her to keep her spiritual life between Him and growing in self knowledge. Whether or not an organization is under the authority of a diocese it still is free to share Catholic doctrine. Instead of spending money and time on sites of questionable authenticity, I realize now that the best way to act radically for Christ is to receive Him every day at Mass and then to live His gospel message. Yes, Holy Love is a very dangerous place. -Kevin J. Symonds. I dont see the point you might be trying to make by posing that question. Read all about it in The Rite The Making of a Modern Exorcist by Matt Baglio. Division comes from Satan himself. She replied I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, but I cannot deny my voices. Was she disobedient? Given the distortions, the heresies, and the banal humanistic claptrap that passes for Catholic theology in so much of Catholic catechesis today, the full beauty of Catholic Truth in evidence at Holy Love Ministries stands out in bold relief. Thank you again. And to add to that, Bishop Lennon hasnt warned ~ hes admonished. You can find that citation from Catherine of Sienna in the first chapter of her Dialogues. This IS the teaching of the Catholic Church. This is a New Era in time, and it is all due to Holy Love. Since Holy Love moved to their latest location in Elyria, Oh. By documents I mean the 1983 Code of Canon Law and the 1978 CDF letter Normae S. Congregationis. This is to say nothing of the many other documents on these affairs throughout the Churchs tradition. I will also add anger. We must not do so. The apparitions are real. Your name kind of rings a bell. But, it is good to dissect their techniques and arguments. Then, all their gains are lost. (3)the only thing that keeps a soul from holiness is free will. Lord have mercy. By traditional theology, that very statement constitutes the condemnation spoken of by Mrs. Armstrong in her letter. I figured that the tens of thousands of pilgrims in Fatima who witnessed the spinning of the sun and had their soaked clothing dried in an instant when the Blessed Mother appeared as predicted had less to go on than we did. At that time, each priest, bishop, cardinal, pope. But until then, we just have to be patient. philosophy that goes something like this, That which is obvious admits no debate. You see, you just do not get it. When has Jesus rejected His own authority that of the Catholic Church? One further question: Are you inferring that Bishop Lennon is a heretic? I refer you to what I just shared with Elizabeth. OK, so now it is heresy to declare the Holy Love apparitions to be not supernatural??? I know others also. The Bishop of Cleveland says otherwise by the fact of his document and he claims to have the backing of the Holy See. Been there. Catholic Exchange is a project of Sophia Institute Press. The whole place is deceptive. Most of the ones that I know now reject it. Patti, interesting article. God bless you all. These are my answers to your points about which you claim that HLM is in error. I love your site. I cant tell you how creepy it was and continues to be anytime I receive one of those so-called messages forwarded to me by my well-meaning, but totally deluded, friends. Its irrelevant to this topic how many bishops and priests are either outright heretics or at the very least, not being true shepherds. Here is a clear example of your biased opinion interpreting what HLM is saying. It behooves each of us to be fortified in the knowledge of what our Faith really teaches. I am indeed saying that Bishop Lennons admonishment is unjust, and, St Thomas instructs, unjust orders are not legally binding. If only they would speak as forcefully and clearly about the evil of abortion as does Holy Love Ministries. Now your church and country are in trouble and we are here to help and pray for all of you. A non-believer can simply read the older warning messages, dated much before any occurrences, and see for himself. He has continued this pattern in Boston. You seem, LizEst, to have trouble with figures of speech. I would love to, Ive been going thru a dry spell and I think this could be the very thing I need right now, I believe I have this book I just need to find it. Doctrine is doctrine no matter who is sharing it. Peace be with you! You are judging that my heart is hardened. If I believed Bishop Lennon is a corrupt bishop I would have said so. If you obey the heresy of unfaithful bishops, you are not being faithful to the Church. Many bishops today want to create a new church, one where man is at the center. Who is to be obedient in this case? Since its relatively close to where one of my sisters lives, I mentioned the place to her. it was a few years ago. Hildebrand says,If there are only a few persons who belileve the true Faith, they are the Church. (Catholic Apologetics). In juxtaposition, does Bishop Lennon have serious concerns about Future Church which is now operating in his diocese. Our Lady is preserving our beautiful Faith that the bishops are letting die through their ineptitude and cowardice. I fear that many, enthralled by what they believe to be a miraculous site, will disregard the Church. Evidently Christs Mother knows the difference between true obedience and the false obedience of excess as St. Thomas gives it to us in the Summa , his greatest work. Its nothing more than one mans account of his own personal private revelations from Jesus.

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